161: The BEST Career Advice From 25 Years As A Lawyer You'll Ever Hear | Jason Stuart Weiss

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the first piece of advice any attorney any any professional listening saying

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"Oh my god I just spent all this money on this education and I don't like what I'm doing oh my god how am I going to

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tell my mom how am I going to tell my spouse how am I going to pay back my loans?" Take a deep breath and you can

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take all that experience and take all that money and take all that education and you could apply it somewhere else

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and let's help you try to apply it to something you're going to like there's often a gap between what

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you're taught in school and what's really important when it comes to the real world our guest today found that

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out the hard way jason Weiss is an author podcast host and lawyer now with over 25 years in the legal world he's

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here today to share with us practical hard-earned real advice that anybody can apply to be successful in a

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people-driven high pressure environment welcome to the Learn It All Podcast the show for today's leaders who are looking

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to get ahead and stay ahead because we believe great leaders aren't born or made we're always in the making i'm your

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host Damon Limbby two-time best-selling author and CEO of Learn It a live learning platform that has upskilled

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over 2 million people over the past three decades i'm really looking forward to have Jason share his thoughts around

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why the practice of law never really ends how to recover from losses and learn to develop thicker skin what not

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to do when giving or receiving professional advice how to pick the right clients and when it's time to walk

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away and why communication and follow-up might be your most valuable assets so you walked out of law school with a law

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degree but when did you first really realize that you weren't prepared for the real world so I admit I walked out

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of law school with a law degree and then I went and took the Florida bar exam and passed it my first time through and then

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I got my first letter from uh my loans that said I owed

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$88,700 um so so that was it um I guess

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the first time um that I really like didn't know I was prepared or didn't

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know what I was getting into was when I went and sat with one of my bosses at the time and he basically just said to

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me "Look I I saw the the action and boom boom boom boom boom boom boom and it

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dawned on me like this guy looked at the stuff that I gave him for literally 30 seconds and he knew what to do." And

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here I was and I spent hours looking at something and I was so confused and it's

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really the stuff uh and and here's a plug on me it's really the stuff they didn't teach me in law school right it

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was it was kind of like the real life stuff and it was just amazing to see how

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this gentleman in literally 30 seconds was like "All right these are the points these are the arguments and oh by the

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way Jason you're getting on a plane tomorrow and you're going and arguing it." And I was like "Okay and how did

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you do when you got there to argue it?" I actually won um it was something that

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uh it's a summary judgement we were defending it um and the other side has the higher burden to get it so they have

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to prove their case and I just need to say basically you didn't prove your case and I brought up enough at the time uh

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to for the judge to go you know what not on a summary judgement let's keep going so I was like winner you know it was it

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was awesome that's awesome so now you've been practicing law for going on 20 some odd

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years right uh the I'm entering a year 25 i guess I started practicing in 2000

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so uh September of 2000 I was sworn in so I guess September of 2025 I'll be

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practicing 25 years well congratulations time flies doesn't it i mean here we are

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i mean last time I checked I was still in school and now learn it's on its 30-year anniversary i know i know it's

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it but remember it's called the practice of law and and I will say that because I

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could be at it 25 years 50 years or 100 years hopefully not 100 i'll be dead by then but um and I will still be

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practicing it's it's you know there's no right or wrong it's just the practice the practice the practice yeah so let's

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dig in there a little bit what do you mean by the practice of law so it's kind of like you know like doctors the

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practice of medicine um you could come to me with a set of facts and I can say to you Damon I've handled 20 of these

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cases in the past and this is how all 20 of them have gone you can't do that in

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law right it can be look I've handled 20 of these in the past and five went this way and five went that way and five I

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don't remember and five um we settled before it went there so it it's kind of

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like we need to we need to try it out it's not a onesized fits all um career

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or anything just in the law in general look you could go in front of a judge and she could have had a terrible

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night's sleep and you get in there and you say "Good morning your honor." And she's not in your favor and boom you're

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done you could get in in front of a judge and she could say "You know what uh I'm a I'm a I'm an Eagles fan and the

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Eagles won the Super Bowl i am so happy Mr weiss whatever today's your lucky day

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i'm going to grant your emotion you never know yeah i was reading a Daniel Kellerman book actually once where it

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said you could get more favorable judges at certain times of the day if they're less hungry i mean like like you said

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you just kind of never know i mean it comes down to it so let's let's plug your book uh pull up your copy The

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They Didn't Teach You in Law School right there you go the Survival Guide to Navigating the Law and I will say this

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when I when I came up with the title I loved it right i was it was going to be called the they never taught you in

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law school but I decided to make it generic um because of the fact that

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it's not just one book right this this thin book is not everything so um and

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it's not just for lawyers uh I I put it out to friends and family on a pre-release before it came out about a

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year ago and they all read it and they were like "I only have one complaint." And I'm like "Well what was that

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complaint?" It it's not only for lawyers us non- lawyers understood it as well we

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liked it as well so you could market to them as well um so I have a I've actually uh and I just finished it

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getting ready to um go to the can basically is what I call it with volume

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two and it's going to creatively be called more they never taught you in law school well I was I was going to

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say you said you were going to go to the can so I'm like "Oh my goodness here this guy goes." Yep yep yep so well

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that's what I called it i did a lot of film work uh when I was in uh law school and and practicing so I say you know I

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put it in the can having to do with the old uh the old reels but it's going to be something along the lines the not

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just for lawyers guide to get navigating law life and so much more um and that's

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what I'm going to focus on and and so and for your first book you say that it applies beyond law what are some of the

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key skills that everybody needs to thrive in today's day and age uh simple things like um followup right

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you have a great meeting with somebody i don't care if you're in sales if you're uh interviewing an attorney if you are

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interview you just got interviewed for a job right you have a great meeting you knock it out of the park send a

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follow-up right plain and simple send that follow-up and and say

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you know hey it was such a pleasure if you need anything else from me you know I'm really uh I'm really excited to help

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i'm I'm ready to do just let them know right it's don't hide the fact that

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you're interested go into it say "Look I want this job what do I have to do to

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get this job?" Maybe not in those words but but close enough to it where you

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know you you just have that um and I wouldn't I wouldn't be bashful in in in

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saying it um one of the other things like you know just for example um uh what would your mother rabbi or

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priest say right that's one of the chapters and that goes for anything right you want to you find a wallet on

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the street you open it up there's a $100 in there and there's a credit card and a

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driver's license what do you do with the wallet right each person's going to have their own thing

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if you could then tell your rabbi your priest your mother your spouse hey I found a wallet and it had a $100 in it

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and this is what I did and you're not ashamed and you're proud of it then you made the right decision you might say

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for example I gave the wallet the $100 and everything back to them no questions

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asked right i might say um there was a $100 in there um and what I decided to

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do is take out $30 uh and pay for the FedEx to FedEx it

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to the address on the driver's license right i don't see any harm in using their money to return their thing you

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might have said you know what I'm I'm I'm good i just want to feel good i I I

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paid for it somebody else might say "You know what i kept the $100 but I did FedEx it to them and I did give them

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everything and the $100 it wasn't there when I found the wallet." I don't know

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that there's a wrong answer out of any of those somebody could say "Hey look I found the wallet the credit cards everything stuck the $100 in my pocket

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threw the wallet out shredded the credit cards and the driver's license and went about my way." You got to figure out

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what your level of integrity is and and doing and doing the right thing so let's go back to your book because I really

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like this because it's not just about law school i mean formal education in

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general is great but it's theoretical right so what is it that you learned in

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law school but wasn't able to help you move forward in the future i I'll give

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you a great example um and this wasn't scripted so th this is great um when

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when you get out of law school the first thing that you're probably going to do you know especially like if you come

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work with me or another attorney we're going to have you write right we're going to have you write a brief we're

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going to have you write a motion we're going to have you write something and in law school right or wrong they teach you

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how to write from both sides of the story meaning interesting if A B and C

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happen this will happen if 1 2 3 happens this will happen right that's great but

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when a client comes to you the client doesn't come to you and say "Hey I just got sued um or I want to sue you know

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what is what do you think or all?" No client comes to you and the client's going to say "Look I want to sue this

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guy and I want to collect the money that I'm owed get it done." Okay now what do

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you have to do you have to say to the client "No problem let's get it done." Now could you advise of some pitfalls

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absolutely hey this is a breach of contract we're suing on can I have a copy of the signed contract oh you don't

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have a signed contract h okay we're going to say that there's a signed contract do you believe there is one yes

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i just can't find it it was lost in a fire they have it great we're going to be honest with the court this is a

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signed contract we lost the original the other side has possession of it and as part of our action we're going to ask

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for a copy of it but in law school they don't teach you that in law school it would be well if you can produce the

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signed contract da da da da da but if you can't produce the signed contract da da da no no so you have to advocate and

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law school basically and again I'm not saying it's it's wrong it's just how it teaches you it teaches you to argue both

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sides to see the whole playing field but in reality you're going to be narrowly

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focused on this i want my money back we need to sue how do we win and that's

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what they want to know look you also need to be honest with your client and that's another thing right telling your

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client "Look you don't have a good case." Or "Hey I went in and I argued and I lost." They never teach you that in law

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school never and that's one of the hardest things that you ever had to do like when I told you I I won that motion

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for summary judgement hearing I was on a roll right out of law school i won like four five six seven motions in a row um

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I did lose right i lose i want to hear a story about you having to put your tail

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between your legs and go tell a customer that you lost look I had one uh recently

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where it was about a piece of property um that my client bought in the

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commercial setting and unfortunately they there were things that were hidden from my client my client didn't know

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about it and the court ruled against us the court said "You know what it's a commercial setting you had the

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opportunity it wasn't a residential property you could have done your own due diligence because you chose not to

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it was on you." And that was it and I'm like "Huh?" Like really um the other

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thing is that you know not everybody understands how a case a lawsuit really

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goes and and sometimes when the clients will read what you you send them as a

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draft cuz they want to see they want to be hands-on they'll be like "Oh my god this is great let's go for a million not

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just 100,000 you know you you made all these great art hang on look this is all to to get the judge to see it our way

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we're still only suing for a hundred grand but but this is there." And then you go in and you argue and the judge is

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like denied and you're like "Well why?" because at a motion for summary uh at a

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motion to dismiss stage which is at the beginning of the case it's very hard to win but if we present that same argument

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6 months down the line we probably could win could win i didn't say will I said

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could um because again it's the practice of law you get in front of this judge and you know he had a flat tire on the

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way into chambers this morning and he's all pissed off and all this and all that and you're right there in front of the

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judge saying "Hey judge I want to win." You know what Mr weiss i lost this morning you're going to lose today

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denied thank you your honor have a wonderful day so one of the things you talk about in your book a lot that

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really applies to not just lawyers but to entrepreneurs you know businesses

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like Learn It who've been around for 30 years is really picking who you want to work with can you share a little bit

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more about that because you have to kind of set yourself up for success you can't just is even if you're getting started

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you can't just take on everybody well I did when I first got started and I and that was a learning curve and a and a

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mistake right when I first started on my own when I opened my own firm 13 years

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ago I practice what I self-described as door law if it came in the door I would

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take the case now that I'm 13 years in my own practice and I have a nice client

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base I don't have to take every case that comes in the door i could be a little bit more selective and I've

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chosen to be uh but again you you have to work with the clients that you want to work with you know a client that uh

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respects your boundaries you want to work with them a client that pays their bill timely or or sets up a payment plan

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if they can't do it as a lump sum or is working with you and communicating with you saying you know look I apologize i

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can't pay your bill we had a slow month but you know I'm I'm I have funding coming in next month so I'm only going

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to pay you a $100 and I know I owe you a thousand but okay like you work with

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people like that you work with that but the client who hey look I haven't got paid in three months what's going on and

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radio silence and crickets bye you know you don't have to work with that person anymore uh and

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there should also be some some signs uh that maybe you shouldn't work with that person right you're the fourth fifth

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sixth or tenth lawyer on the case um you uh Google the client and let's say it's

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not in a in a legal sense and you find out there's four lawsuits against the client cuz they're not paying bills well

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you might not want to work with that client in any setting right hey the the

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electric company's after them the water company's after them the cable company's after them guess what you don't want it

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to be your business who who's added to that list no absolutely and you know

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when you're just getting started you want to maybe get a hold of whatever you can but then you realize you can go down

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you know a dark hole even you know with somebody who who may not be the best client so how do you know when it's time

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to let go i mean do you ever have any examples or any stories of looking back on it where you knew you should have let

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go earlier but you whether it's sunken cost you just kind of held on too long yeah uh look I when I went to go buy um

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a house I had a client that was in debt to me for a nice amount of money like 60

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70 grand and I turned to him and I'm like "No more i can't do it anymore i I

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don't know how I let it get to this point but I did." And he turned to me and he's like "Okay here's what I could

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do you know I'm a contractor you know I have people you know I have all this when you buy that house you're going to

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want work done." Yep why don't I Why don't I do the work well what does that mean i'll send my crews out there i'll

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do whatever i'll take care of their payroll you just take care of the supplies okay sounded good to me i

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bought paint and I bought plaster and I bought plastic and you name it i bought all that stuff and he was supposed to

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send workers out and I got a phone call and it wasn't his name but same last

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name and a different first name i'm like h I don't know and I picked it up and it

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was this gentleman's son and he wanted to let me know that his dad was just picked up for uh violation of his parole

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ouch or you know doing things that he wasn't allowed to do and uh I probably

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will not be seeing him for multiple years and here I am 60 grand in the hole

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another $10,000 in in supplies and guess what i didn't have the money and these

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guys are showing up to do the work and they they're doing the work and they turn to me and they're like you know we were told to get paid by you wait insult

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injury what um wound up getting everything done wound up coming out of

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pocket massive amount of money um borrowing from my parents uh you know thanks mom

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and dad paid them back in full completely but I was stuck uh and it and

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it allowed me to go back and say to "Hey Jason why did you allow so and so to get

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60 grand in debt right so I look at it this way i won't let a client get

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further into debt that I'm not comfortable just like I won't lend somebody money that I'm not comfortable

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in not getting it back." If you said to me "Hey Jason could I borrow $100?" Thankfully at this point in my life a

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$100 is not going to make or break me and I would be like "You know what Damon absolutely if I never get that $100 back

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so be it i'll probably tease you about it and and bust on you about it hey uh you know that that's a nice shirt cost

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100 bucks." You know that type of thing but it's not going to make or break me uh and I say do do the same with clients

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right don't let them get ahead of you don't let them abuse you and treat it kind of like you go to a restaurant you

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order the food you're not allowed to leave without paying you hire me you give me money upfront I will work and I

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will continue to work just stay current on your bill so Jason what are some other misconceptions that uh everyday

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non- lawyers have about lawyers in general uh two that come to to top of

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mind the first one is that oh you're a lawyer can you help me out with my

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husband and I were getting divorced or my husband and I my my fiance and I were getting married can you help me with a

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prenup or uh my so and so just passed away stop like I don't do that you tell

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me you're buying a business I can help you you want to sell a business I can help you you're getting sued I can help

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you you want to set up a a a trust for your family and all that not me you want

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to get divorced not me you want to immigration things not me so although

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I'm a general practitioner I really focus in business business disputes um

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business mergers purchase sale all that kind of stuff you know you got a speeding ticket in South Florida I might

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be able to help you but why why not send you over to the to the right person so we don't

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really focus or or or let me change that most attorneys

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will will focus in a specific area family and criminal family in business family and corporate um but we're not a

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one-stop shop right you can't come to me and get everything across the board but I can get you to the right people right

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you You need someone to help you with a prenup I've got a guy you need somebody to help you with a with a trust and

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estate stuff I've got a woman you got So so that that that that's point number

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one number two is that we know it all we don't right you give me a scenario you

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give me a set of facts and most of the time you're going to be like "Oh yeah sure okay I got this i got that no

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problem Damon this is what you need to do." D okay no give me your set of facts

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i'm going to tell you "Hey look this is unique this is something that I need to dig a little bit more i'm going to get

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back to you in 24 48 or 72 hours because I want to do a little bit of research because I don't want to steer you down

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the wrong path because I know what my gut says my gut says it should be ABC

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but not confident enough to say that so let me do this let me take it let me

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research it let me bounce it off a colleague maybe and I'll be back in touch and that's okay is that something

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that you have learned over time because as I'm hearing you speak a lot of

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entrepreneurs whether you're lawyers or not you know they're afraid to say Jason I don't know right because a lot of

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times people think well you have to have all the answers but it's okay to be vulnerable and say let me think about it

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and come back to you so I think it's important to do that because look you might see you might pose a question and

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I might be able to to to to go ahead but maybe I need more facts maybe I want to

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check the law maybe I want to check the jurisdiction maybe I want to see a piece of paper that everybody signed um maybe

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I want to consult check GPT uh you know to go ahead and and see what new

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developments came out right and and it happens in the law all the time especially at the beginning of the year

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um I I was handling a case for a friend and the friend called me up and he's like "Jay um did we screw up?" I'm like

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"What do you mean?" He goes "I read something that came out and it said that for this type of case it's no longer

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four years you have to do it within two." I'm like "You're correct however

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you didn't read the fine print." And this is where I come into play that it's not retroactive so as long as we filed

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by December uh 2024 or as long as it happened before December 31st

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2024 you get four years but if it happens on January 1st 2025 or anytime

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thereafter yes you only get two and oh by the way we're not even at 2 years yet

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so you could take a deep breath and relax but again you know I just happen

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to know that if I didn't know it I'd be like "No no no no there's got to be something about retroactivity

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grandfathered in i know this is important to you you know go go about your day do whatever let's talk this

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time tomorrow." You hop on the computer you do the check you figure it out

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hopefully nine times out of 10 or 10 times out of 10 it's "Yeah I was right no big deal." You know blah blah blah

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but that one time two times or even five times out of 10 you got to take your lumps you know what you're right and and

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here's my way of fixing it not You're right you're screwed you're right i got

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it but I found this case that says da da da da da so when you are go and and

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that's going back to the question you posed before when you have to deliver bad news if you could deliver the bad

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news but with a potential solution or a an action plan or something that's huge

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and they don't teach that in law school either it's not just we lost you lose you have to pay it could be look we lost

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we have 30 days to appeal we could file a a motion for reconsideration um the

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other side knows that you don't have the the wherewithal to make the payments and they're happy to make a payment plan

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with you the other side is willing to give you flexibility like there are so many things that you can't just say I

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lost oh my god it's got to be look we lost and here's our next steps and and I

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think that's important that people want communication especially in this day and

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age right if you can't find it instantly on Instagram and instantly on on the

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internet and instantly on chat GPT you know what good is it uh I I was watching

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the Super Bowl and uh I think uh what was his name kendrick Lamar was uh was

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performing and we were trying to figure out his jacket where it was from what it said do whatever and my mother-in-law

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was here watching the game with us and she went on her phone and immediately found it like that she was happy she

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knew what it meant she knew what it said you know all this and all that but imagine if you know it took a day to

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figure it out oh my god you know and and you got to manage client expectations

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that's that's the other thing yeah that managing client expectations is so important but let's go back for a second

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about taking your lumps because what I like about what you said in your book is that it's it's really important to

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develop thick skin so what are some lessons what are some key lessons you've learned for how to develop thick skin

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and and bounce back from some setbacks that you've had so the one that I am still learning 25 years in a practice is

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it's not personal right business is personal right right but business is personal right i like to work with

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people that I like that like me i like their product i like whatever like and

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people that you know it's not when your phone rings go "Oh god it's so and so." It's more like "All right it's so and so

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let me let me help her out with the case let me help him out with this let me see what's going on." But you got to

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remember it's not it's not you it's not on your shoulders it's not personal look

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you don't show up to a hearing and you blow it and and you miss the deadline and you do all Yeah that's on you right

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but you go in and you're fully prepared and you just happen to not have a good day or happen to not have a good

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argument that's not on you and sure the day you're like "Oh well I lost." It's

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probably the day you need to re-evaluate if if it's right for you but if it's "Look oh man I lost i can't believe I

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lost i got to tell the client I'm so annoyed." Um you do what you got to do you take the rest of the day off you sit

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in sorrow for the day you drink your your diet soda or your scotch or you smoke your cigar whatever it is you

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drink a glass of wine you you mellow out and you start again fresh the next day and that's so important and you're not

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going to always win you're going to lose and you're going to lose when you should win and you're going to win when you

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should lose and the other side is going to win when you should win it happens and and you don't have control over it

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and my suggestion is you put forth 100% you make sure that you couldn't have

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done anything different and and you learn from you learn from it right you might not go in and

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argue in front of that judge at nine o'clock in the morning because you know that he has to get his kids to school

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and he has to do all this and he comes in frazzled and he doesn't want to deal with it you might know that an 11:00 is

28:44

great for him because all he wants to do is finish up real quick and get to lunch okay you don't know and you just need to

28:53

you need to do your research you need to be planned you need to be prepared and you need to be ready to perform and

29:01

you've kind of answered this question but I but you know our our show is Learn It All Podcast how does continuous

29:07

learning play a role uh for yourself as being such a successful lawyer every day

29:14

we're learning every day um I am learning with tools such as AI right uh

29:20

I would never never say "Oh just find a case on on you know chat GPT and do all

29:27

that." No no no no no but chat GPT might be able to point you in the right direction on how to frame the question

29:33

if you can't find the law it might let you know um in a certain jurisdiction

29:39

some of the local rules where to look but it's it's a constant it's a constant

29:45

learn um know what changes are in the law know what changes are coming down

29:50

the pipe um you know know that that argument's been argued seven times and

29:55

it's failed all seven times know that it's something's been argued a hundred times and it it always wins so you need

30:02

to always be ready and prepared and you know and follow the law um as attorneys

30:09

at least here in the state of Florida we have to take what's called continuing legal education courses um I I take CLES

30:17

is what we call the things that interest me or things that I wouldn't otherwise know so I just took a CL about AI

30:24

because it's something I've mentioned a couple of times and it's something I want to know about um I also took uh a

30:30

CLE on having to do with um like bankruptcy i don't do bankruptcy i don't

30:37

want to do bankruptcy i refer clients out to other bankruptcy attorneys but I want to know enough that I can say you

30:44

know what you might have to go ahead and file bankruptcy let me get you to the

30:50

right person well why do you think I need bankruptcy well I to I took something recently and these are the

30:57

four criteria that you would qualify for and from what I hear from you it sounds

31:03

like you have all four so let me get you with soandso because all he does is

31:08

practice bankruptcy and he will give you a free consultation and chat with him

31:13

yeah I think it's important you know like you said figure out what your strengths are your passions and if it's

31:19

not in your lane you know connect that person with a bankruptcy attorney

31:24

because then you're you're you're a trusted advisor and they'll come back to you when there's other things that they

31:29

can uh you could value benefit them i want to stick with AI a little bit how is how do you foresee AI impacting or

31:38

changing the way law works in the future so right now I don't think AI has caught

31:45

up with law yet um I do think AI is

31:50

going to be a huge tool right i look at it as Batman batman's got that belt and

31:55

according to Joker in the in the original Batman movie with Michael Keaton he has a line where do you get all those wonderful toys well I think AI

32:03

and chat GPT and all of these uh one wave and and you know all all the others

32:09

um I think they are tools in your utility belt but Batman's utility belt

32:16

hanging on the back of his door does no good when it's on his waist and he can

32:21

use it direct it and and and throw you know whatever it needs to be thrown i

32:26

think AI is huge um now I will tell you I'll go on and I I'll be you know on

32:33

ChatGpt or one of the other platforms you know find me a case that says ABC

32:38

and it and before you know it boom there's the case and you say "All right now narrow it down to Michigan." Boom

32:44

there's a case and most people will say "Got it smith versus Jones." And here we

32:50

go it's a case out of Michigan okay my advice and I'm going to say this slow to

32:56

all of the attorneys that are listening and to everybody else don't just take it on its face pull that case go into

33:04

Weslaw Google Google Scholar Lexus Nexus Case Text whatever you use and make sure

33:11

it's right because I'll tell you from personal experience oh my god here's the case how did I miss this you know and

33:18

and great and great and then I'll go ahead and I just quickly want to see more about the case and I'll throw it in

33:24

a Waw no such case or the case was wrong or it was from the wrong jurisdiction or

33:30

it was from and if I would have gone in and argued I would have looked foolish so I do think AI is

33:37

everchanging ever learning we could call it the practice of AI use but again

33:44

don't use it as gospel use it as hey maybe check this out go see what it's

33:52

about do your research and make sure it's right because a lot of times I'm

33:57

finding it's not i I do believe I'm with you 100% you can't use it as gospel you

34:04

can't just have it write a a legal agreement for you and not check it or anything like that i do believe that in

34:12

like a lot of industries there's probably a lot of old school lawyers who aren't going to implement AI at all and

34:17

and it can be a a benefit for you um you know could save you time on doing things

34:23

but you you can't just go at it alone so that's great advice but what is the worst professional advice anybody's ever

34:30

given you in your career i I'll tell you this i was interviewing a coach cuz I I

34:37

have a coach i have I've worked with coaches i've done all that and I wasn't happy where I was at in the law and and

34:44

everything that was going on so I met with a coach uh and she asked me some

34:50

great questions you know why are you not happy what could you see differently do all of this do all that and at the end

34:56

of the coaching session she goes "Okay here's my take." And I'm like "All right let's go." She's like "Close your law

35:02

firm stop practicing law um go ahead and pursue what it is that you love and the

35:09

money will come." Okay can you explain to me yeah close up your door go chase

35:15

it okay um I had fire right i had at that point in time like three may no it

35:21

was pre-COVID so I had about six months of living expenses that I didn't have to change a thing in my life and I could go

35:28

6 months without making any income and I'd be okay and I said that to her i like so what happens in month seven

35:34

she's like ah foreclosure they don't catch up to you for a while and then you could always file bankruptcy i'm like it

35:40

was such a pleasure to meet you thank you for opening up my eyes and thank you for for telling me I really need to get

35:47

into the coaching space because I know more about what I'm talking about than you do a and that was it so yes chase

35:54

your passion go after what you love get involved in things you want that's all great advice but you can't say I'm gonna

36:02

blow off this deadline or I'm not going to do this or I'm not going to communicate with the client no no no no

36:08

no no no and never ever ever try to bury the

36:13

mistake fess up to it but don't just fess up to it fess up to it with a plan

36:19

of attack or a plan of action or next steps um and when I'd heard from older

36:26

attorneys that I worked for right out of school and you know look we missed a deadline or we missed this or we missed

36:32

that and I'd get the response ah don't worry about it don't listen to that advice i would do the opposite call the

36:40

chambers of the judge it was a deadline of today we missed it we calendared it

36:45

wrong what should we do file a motion explain to the court go check the local rules about excusable neglect you'll be

36:53

fine thank you and so so and again the

36:58

older lawyers probably that's the advice that I should have read between the lines like don't worry about it we'll

37:05

fix it we'll work it out all I heard was "Ah don't worry about it." No

37:12

well I think it's kind of like one of the themes that we're talking about here is the importance of communication and

37:17

just dealing with something headon right because you can't you can't just bury the mistake because it's not going to

37:24

you know it's it's just not going to go away so you you have you have to address it so I want to talk a little bit about

37:29

your coaching but one question that maybe you you get is what advice you

37:35

have for somebody let's say uh somebody who's an accountant you or they've been in sales their whole year but they're a

37:41

big John Gryom fan and they said "You know what i wanna I want to go to law school and become a lawyer." What uh

37:46

what advice do you have for them uh think long and hard before you make that decision um if you live near um a

37:54

university that has uh law school classes like you know if you're in South Florida go to University of Miami or FIU

38:01

or FAU or any of the schools go in sit in a class see what it's like um know

38:07

that it's nothing like what they show on TV um and and you also need to be prepared to basically just focus on law

38:16

school for year one 100% when I went to law school I had to sign something saying I would not work during my entire

38:23

first year because they want you to have a full-time job and then some um so that

38:28

would be number one number two is you know get your finances in order can you afford it do you need uh you know do you

38:35

need loans uh and most importantly why are you going to law school because you

38:40

want to be like you know these people on TV and they're they're arguing and they're going to court all the time and

38:45

all that the only way to have that is go to the public defenders of the state attorney's office and and you're not

38:51

going to be making the RV Spectre type money right suits is a phenomenal show i

38:58

loved it but not even close to reality no I I I I I totally appreciate that so

39:05

let's talk a little bit about the coaching you're doing what are some of the most common uh challenges that your

39:11

your coaches are you know people you're coaching are coming to you with i hate being a lawyer i'm miserable with being

39:17

a lawyer why did I go to law school right those are the those are the that's the common thread um and it's funny

39:24

because before I started coaching um I actually worked with somebody because I was trying to develop a course right a

39:31

one-sizefits-all read these PDFs and you will be happy as a lawyer okay no such

39:37

thing although there's a common thread for most of the people I work with it's

39:42

it's not always that I'm miserable i'm not happy it's they're just not content with where they're at and what does that

39:49

mean i don't like my boss i don't like my paycheck i don't like my hours i

39:55

don't like the area of law i don't That's the first thing right i worked with somebody and I said to him he came

40:02

to me he's like "I hate what I do." Okay what do you do i do litigation well what

40:07

do you hate about it i hate the confrontation okay what do you want to do i just want to sit research and write

40:15

okay you're at a litigation firm do they have an appellet department well yeah they do well why don't you see if you

40:22

can get involved in the appeals huh cuz in appellet work you're not going to

40:27

have to go argue you're not going to have to go fight with your client or fight with opposing council it's all writing it's all research and he did and

40:34

and he found out that he was allowed to do litigation and appeals work and he did so well in appeals that he was able

40:41

to move his entire area of practice into that he eventually left the firm he was at and went over to an a firm that all

40:48

they do is appeals uh I worked with a a young lady who she hated what she was

40:54

doing well what do you hate i I don't want to go to court i don't want to deal with divorces it's making me and my

41:00

husband fight all this and all that so why do you do family law well I don't know anything else well what is what can

41:07

you learn well I could start doing you know some trust work i could start doing some estate work because I do some of

41:13

that with family law i know some tax stuff he said "Well there you go." and

41:19

and she decided to go into that area of practice um she eventually gave up the

41:26

law you know private practice completely went in house with a company and and I'm jealous as heck so you know who I'm

41:32

talking about i'm jealous of you um but but that's what it is see there's no I

41:38

don't think there's a commonality in what makes us unhappy in our profession

41:43

i I think you just need to hear it you need to say it and the first thing the first piece of advice any attorney any

41:50

any professional listening saying "Oh my god I just spent all this money on this education and I don't like what I'm

41:57

doing oh my god how am I going to tell my mom how am I going to tell my spouse how am I going to pay back my loans?"

42:02

Take a deep breath and you can take all that experience and take all that money

42:08

and take all that education and you could apply it somewhere else and let's help you try to apply it to something

42:14

you're going to like you can negotiate but you could do it as a car salesman right car salesmen can make six figures

42:21

plus if you're doing it right so go negotiate you could go become a judge

42:27

you could go become like me a mediator there are so many different things you can do with that education chances are I

42:35

can't take my law degree and scrub in and perform surgery tomorrow but I probably can take the splinter out of my

42:42

hand like I did earlier you You catch my drift yeah I get it what I hear you saying which I think is uh very

42:48

important is that the skills that you pick up whether it's in law school or even practicing law for 20 years they

42:56

are transferable in other parts of your life and so it's not a wash it's stuff

43:01

that you can use and can have a great impact on um moving forward and and the

43:07

one thing I'll say is this for anybody that's considering getting a coach having a coach doing all of that just

43:14

make sure you're going to a coach or somebody for the right reason and what I say is this and and I did not when I

43:21

first started i went to a coach thinking that I work with a woman what's the wrong reason the wrong reason is I'm

43:28

going to go to a coach and she is going to tell me what I'm doing wrong and she

43:34

is going to help me fix it if that's why you're going to a coach do not go okay

43:39

you go to a coach to figure out what it is that you're not happy with what it is

43:46

and all this and and to be to air it out to speak about it to and to come up with

43:52

your own decisions the coach should just be sitting there and say "How does that make you feel do you think you can make

43:58

a change do you think you could do things differently?" They should be asking more questions and not telling

44:03

you "Okay stop what you're doing go into your boss's office and demand a raise."

44:08

No look you're not happy with the money okay how can we impress upon your judge

44:15

or your boss that you need to make a couple more dollars or that you want different hours or this or that well um

44:23

I know that I don't want to talk to him first thing in the morning because he comes in and says "Nobody talk to me

44:28

before I have my coffee." Aha step number one you know show up in his office with the cup of coffee saying "I

44:35

got you a cup of coffee i really need time uh when you after you enjoy your cup of coffee can we sit and chat you

44:42

know what he's going to be doing the entire time he's drinking the coffee man why did he give me this coffee what's wrong oh my god do I need to make him

44:49

happy uh is he going to quit on me?" Right just little things so you've been

44:55

at it for 25 years how do you keep yourself uh still motivated sometimes it's tough uh not going to lie you know

45:02

when when I win a big case or I get something for a client or you know something comes in the door that

45:07

motivates me uh part of the motivation is also the um going out there trying to

45:12

generate more business uh right now I'm focusing on uh trying to act less as a

45:19

lawyer and more as a mediator so I want lawyers to come to me so I can help them

45:24

resolve their cases with their clients and that's where I seem to find some

45:29

passion again what I keep forgetting is look I've been practicing law almost 25 years on my own for 13 it took me a

45:37

while to build that up so despite going out there and going to marketing events and telling people I'm mediating and

45:43

doing all this it's not like boom oh my god here's 20 mediations for you right

45:49

off the bat no I still have to work at it and it it falls into you know going

45:56

out there getting seen getting heard and and marketing myself once again yeah now you know what I like that you talk about

46:02

in your book maybe you can um share a little bit about it is is showing up

46:07

actually trumps even having talent right yep yep and look there was an old show

46:15

that an old guy like me watched Night Court right i love Night Court okay so so I think his name was Harry Stone

46:22

Judge Stone on the show and he would always tell his story how did you get appointed to the judge you know to the

46:29

to the bench and he'd be like "It was a Friday night and I was the only one to pick up my phone." So showing up and and

46:36

being there is part of it you may not be the best you may not be the tallest you

46:42

may not be the strongest the quickest the fastest the the most um polished

46:47

person but you're there and and that's half of it right and as long as your

46:53

goal is to get 1% better every day that's what it is so but look there's

47:00

got to be a balance right if I don't pick up the phone because somebody is calling are they going to go call another attorney or are they going to

47:06

call me back or are they going to text me saying "I didn't you didn't pick up can you call me back?" So you got to

47:11

stop with the fear of "Oh my god if I don't pick up the phone or respond to the email right now that client's going

47:17

to go somewhere else." No no it it's not going to happen and you could take a

47:23

deep breath and you should respond within a business day an hour you could

47:29

let them know hey I'm on a podcast i'm in a meeting i'm using the restroom i'll be back in touch that's all people want

47:36

open dialogue open dialogue and and setting communication and and expectations right because I've seen

47:43

that people coach especially sales people they they think they have to respond immediately you don't have to

47:49

respond immediately you just need to make sure that you respond at some point within a reasonable time frame you know

47:55

and get back with them with the right answer don't just rush back into it as we wrap up here so your book came out in

48:01

January uh 24 I believe right right is there anything from your book that

48:06

you've changed directions on that let's say you no longer subscribe to like okay

48:12

you don't believe that's the case anymore or is there anything that you've really doubled down on since your book

48:18

so me personally I've doubled down on that business is personal but at the

48:24

same time you can't take it personal and that's too separate so I'm I'm working with more people who I like to be around

48:33

to work like if I were to say I need to drive in a in a 3-hour drive if I were

48:38

to say to that person I will meet you up there um and you know we can go ahead

48:44

and and do that i is that something that's good you got to be willing to to work with the people that you want to

48:51

work with that that's number one i've doubled down on that and number two is to try to make it take it not so

48:57

personal right oh my god we lost what did I do wrong what no I lost okay

49:03

what's our next steps what's our our next uh game plan so those are the two that I'm really working on and one of

49:10

the things I talk about in in the book is I have an advisory board right these are the people that I go to uh for

49:17

advice that I I go to bounce things off of that I follow that I mentor that they're my mentor um so that

49:26

uh advisory board has changed in the past year probably two or three times and that's something I recommend in the

49:32

book don't keep it the same keep changing it so at least I listen to my own advice when it comes to that is

49:38

there one more piece of advice you want to leave our audience with uh go out and buy my book They Never Taught You

49:44

in Law School show it again show it one more time and it it's it's got the colors it's a

49:50

bestseller it's all there but no the truth of the matter is if you're an attorney who is just not 100% happy with

49:57

where you are or you want more or you want change or you're thinking about going to law school and you're just not

50:03

sure reach out um that that those are the people that I'll I'll work with you i'll chat with you i work with students

50:10

regularly uh and those are the the clients that yes those aren't the ones

50:15

that I'm going to make the most money off of but I really enjoy working with them um because I learn from them as

50:23

much as they learn from me so where can our audience besides buying your book which I recommend where can they connect

50:30

with you at uh I'm on Instagram at AskJason Weiss uh and I'm on LinkedIn at

50:40

jason-sisss uh and you could always just email me at jason

50:46

askjason.com thank you Jason we had a great conversation today to kind of recap what we talked about we talked

50:52

about the gap between formal education and real world practice the importance

50:58

of client selection you want to work with people who you can trust who you like and it's a win-win relationship we

51:05

also talked about developing a thick skin and how to handle setbacks how to be smart when it comes to leveraging AI

51:12

can't just trust it like it's the gospel and also really important for our conversation today was the power of

51:17

follow-up and communication so thank you Jason this was great and for our listeners out there if you know of

51:24

anybody who wants to be a lawyer or maybe is a lawyer and they're unhappy with what they're currently doing send

51:30

them our conversation today cuz I know they'll get value out of it and until next time everybody stay curious keep

51:37

learning and have a great day thank you 75% of workers today are millennials 70%

51:43

are graduating with student debt it's the number one need within the workplace that you know outside of candidly is not

51:49

being addressed

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