146: The Most Influential Leadership Style in 2025 Beyond Technical Skills | Joe Davis

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nobody will follow to the ends of the world someone who Proyou proceed to never make mistakes to be perfect to

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always have all the answers it's just too uncomfortablewhich I think is the other thing to think about in small acts it just means somuch and you know what

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you may think is not such a big deal and that moment couldbe a huge deal to them what have we not spoken about that you

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want to leave our audience with a lot of this is about beinga great leader today takes

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more than just driving outcomes it takes Humanity becauseyou're people won't follow someone who's perfect but they're

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going to follow somebody who's real welcome to the learnitall podcast the show for today's leaders who want to get

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ahead and stay ahead because we believe great leaders aren'tborn or made they are constantly in the making I'm your

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host Damon lby two time bestselling author and CEO of learnit a live learning platform that has helped

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upskill over two million people over the past three decadesjoining me in a moment is Joe Davis he was managing

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director and Senior partner at Boston Consulting Group B BCGwhere he led the firm's North America region and founded

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bcg's Center for inclusion and equity in our conversationI'm going to be asking Joe to share why you should lead by

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giving without expecting anything in return how to earnfollowership by showing up as your real self and how

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small gestures can have a massive positive impact you'vesaid that leadership today is not complicated it's

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just different so what's changed in your opinion and whydoes le generous leadership play such an important an

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impactful role in today's world oh there's a lot of answersto those two questions in there in the um I've gotta

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be careful leadership might still be complic oh you said Ididn't show yeah it's still complicated but I do think some things havechangeed I think at the

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core due to the onset of Technology initially you think ofthe Blackberry many years ago all a sudden you're now

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on 247 or you can be on so work is starting to blur socialmedia just puts

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stuff in our face all the time if you choose to swipe andmost people do you know and then of course Co completely

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blurred the work life between technology and like peoplereally now you know work and life does not

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separate beautifully very often so people want to bringtheir human self to their job and quite frankly they have to

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and need to and I think and I think people now expect fromtheir leader to see a level of humanity we can debate

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how far but you know the perfect autoc itic may not beperfect work boss whose

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everything's buttoned down and everything's just right noHumanity at all that's not going to inspire today's

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today's employee and this is not just a young person thing Ithink this is this is all of us so that's the that's the

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fundamental change I believe has happened which is you knowchanging the whole package someone has to bring as a

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leader what's your definition of generous leadership I dohave a very simple definition I you know what I say

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is a generous leader or generous leadership is when theleader gives themselves freely without expectation of

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direct personal benefit so others can grow develop andThrive to their full

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potential and let me make two points there if I may one ofcourse when I say

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without direct personal benefit if you got your whole teamhumming and working their full potential you're going to win

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too because your team's can perform better so you but youdon't that's not the gold the second thing I'll say and

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some people have asked me is well is this it's all aboutbeing nice a leader still has to get to

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outcomes and has to deliver results or you will not have therole or the job so this is not saying no no no just be nice

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I'm actually arguing if you want to really Inspire andmotivate your people to form at the top the best level

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bringing these traits of generosity or the type of generousleader is what's going to get you there which then in

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turn of course gets you the results because at the end ofthe day what I hear you saying is it's all about your

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people and yeah you have to hit the results but in order toget there you

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can't do it alone you need to motivate your people you knowInspire them get them to believe in you to to buy in and

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that is just critical these days for that book I wrote Iinterview waim datato CEO of J&J and Wen said to me he

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a very interesting quote it's the CEO of a hundred billiondollar company or maybe they sold consumer a little less

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100,000 people he said Joe people can never forget outcomesmatter deliver has

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or leader has to deliver results but the sooner they unlockthe potential the essential human traits of the people of

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their teams the sooner they'll get to their results whichwas pretty interesting for a CEO who could be

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command and control you know he understood no no no I'vegota have all these all these people have to hum to

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make this really really work and I just think that's so soessential I really

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liked your book and um the generous leader and I love howyou broke it down into you know the seven ways that

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somebody can you know give of yourself to help others whatinspired you now to

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write that book I have four reasons if I go through all fouryour listeners will get bored but I did have some friends that coming out of Cosaid hey you ought

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to write about what we all just went through and some of theLeadership Lessons you learned I also wanted to

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well that's there but the other thing I wanted to do youknow a lot of people write business books breny Brown probably sells Millionsyou know it's

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they're very famous people but I thought to myself and afriend of mine said Joe if you move eight people to think

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differently about their leadership and how they're going tolead and bring some of these traits it's worth the effort

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now right a book's a lot of work so I don't know Eight'senough but is very powerful to me because you know you can be you can beoverwhelmed and daunted by

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the people that are so popular that why lend your voice butI thought hey I can lend my voice some different set of

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people will read my book that will read hers although mostpeople read hers um so I wanted to see what I could do to

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help move people in their leadership do you you see thatfuture Generations having such a long tenure at

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organizations like you and I both did I had a good a goodfriend at a boss for a while said Joe you don't really know the

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future so don't comment but I think the data would alreadysay I didn't realize you've been there 30 years say you and I

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are a little unusual my friend I mean it's already thinkproven and I you know I think the thing is ifps out is there's

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so many opportunities out there as far as types of things todo and types of

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jobs and you know people are no longer like oh I work I is agreat company but I work at IBM I'm a cog in the wheel I

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do my thing go home at go in at 9ine come home at 5 you knowthat that's that's just not there anymore the 95s

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might be but you know just like I'm only a cog on the wheelI think the most talented want to you know strive for

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different experiences and someone that's always developingthem so I think people will tend to move around to look for the

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next big opportunity to develop them if you really Inspireand motivate somebody

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um I mean some people say why did you stay so long and onethey incredible Mentor who was always pushing me to be better you know reallyI'm going to walk

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away from a great mentor now there's a lot of other elementstoo you know I had different job variety and different experiences and wasalways learning um

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if all that happens to fit then you get you and me I guessbut otherwise I think

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we have to we have to know people are G to move around ifyou want them to give their all to you as a leader you better

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be giving them your all so let's go back to your book so inJoe's book you talk a lot about vulnerability

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and not just that you know vulnerability is about being openit's also about freeing up others to do their best work

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so Joe share with us how can vulnerability really helpremove barriers for people's teams two things

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I'll tell you a story I mean I think the one thing is noneyou know if you have a truly and not a truly a perfect quote

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unquote leader it's really hard to follow them first offbecause you know nobody's perfect so something's a miss

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here right you know and also though you don't know how toconect to that if you're in trouble if you're stuck if

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you're lost so everyone has to show I believe everyone needsto show a level of authenticity which means some level

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of vulnerability or being real I had a a colleague at work Iasked him about when he stepped over the line you know shows

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pass a little bit of vulnerability and he said to me very hesaid you know Joe I was afraid ever to say I don't know to

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my teams I don't want to look like I don't know so one timeso if the team is meeting with me and I can see they're

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getting stuck and know they're going to ask me and I don'thave an answer I will leave the rout before I'll answer before

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I mask and have to say I don't know he said this is you knowfinally he said this is ridiculous how unproductive is

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that so one day he stayed in the room he um they asked theyasked him he said well I don't know either he said he was

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astounded you know this burst of energy hit the broom it'slike oh you don't know oh we don't know oh it's okay not

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to know and just's this energy around I it's oh it's okaythe boss to say I don't know it's okay for the boss just

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shows him vulnerability so we all can ad we got and we couldstart the team together and work to solve it and I

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think the minute you show that if you never show it peoplearen't going to show it either and they're stuck now

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what they don't they just don't they're able to deliverwhether it's a task you need them to do or at their full

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potential so there is a lot to if you can release theirfears by showing them

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it's okay to be a little bit afraid or what you knowwhatever it works um now

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you can't sit there and be a boss say oh I don't I don'tknow you know there's there's some elements to leadership

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we're not talking about here I'm adding to the qualities areexpected you know I agree with you you need to be vulnerable

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but you got to do so with confidence what do you say toleaders out there uh who say well I think that by showing

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vulnerability you come across as weak if I'm talk aboutone-on-one first thing I say is I don't believe you I don't agree

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with you but you know so I think a couple things I actuallythink dep what you're talking about if you're sitting

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there and just saying well here let me you know both ScottKirby said when the um Co hit you said I I said to my team

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and everybody I'm not sure we're going to fly again peoplesay how can you say that he said well what do you want me to lie I don't knowwhen we're going to fly

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again the minute I start to say oh everything's okay anddon't worry and we'll be you know I know it's be people

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start to I don't get it as opposed to listen I don't knowwhere we're fly again either but we're going to be keeping our PL boom boomboom boom boom

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and we when we go again whever you ready or you rememberArnie senson the CEO Marriott did that it's a very famous

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video you can someone go watch it who's dying of cancer Cohits he gets on there it's to 880,000 marri out employees you

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know head called just talked about you know we're shuttingdown we're have to Furlow some of you but we're here for

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you we're open up when we can not sure when but it's justyou know it's complete vulnerable thing but also with

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confidence that we will be back and we're going to be hereto make sure we all come back so I don't you know it's

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one I don't call that weakness or uncertainty I call thatHonesty you know

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um now if you're just dead lost you're not going to go andsay I have no idea what we're going to do we're in trouble Heaven Help Us okaybut then you better

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be replaced as the leader you know people might say and II'm curious what you think that it's important to be

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vulnerable it's important to be transparent but should yoube fully transparent or should there be levels of

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transparency as far as what you discuss with your team ohyeah no no of course I mean that's going to be a situational

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what you just said but of course there's levels oftransparency I mean if you're sitting there spinning your

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wheels um you know I remember when 9911 and uh know doc concrash I didn't

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realize this but B I was Junior gu but BCG I guess had likesix months where we

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didn't sell any new work was was a long time ago existingclients yeah existing clients continued so there was you know

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we people weren't sitting around but nothing you know ifyou're sitting there in the executive committee looking at

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that you're pretty nervous right because no one knows wherethe world's going after 91 and crash um so you're thinking

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where is it and you don't go tell everybody hey I meanthat's not wise now you might say we're gonna have to make

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some moves to tighten things up but you know we're stillgonna be you know you know so I just think there's yes of

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course and I mean also there sometimes there transparencyjust it's just almost

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unethical to share or illegal if you've got a public publiccompany but I don't think you know to be that I'm not sure

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where it's going but I've got these and these and theseplans we're going to go together that's okay you know um which is what

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those guys did during Co but I know I would and I can'tanswer what's the level because it it depends as I said

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it's contextual to your point but sure I don't think if ourexecutive committee had come out said hey man we don't work

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for six month I mean how many of us would have quit in 30seconds you know but would go to the next guy so for

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somebody who's listening in and they're a leader and they'resaying well I'm not a very vulnerable person um

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and I maybe I need to be to build better connections Joewhat's one step what's

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the first step they can take to becoming more vulnerablewith their team the first step is to figure out you know I

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say crossing your line figure out a baby step you can takeover that's not going

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to traumatize you or the world I mean if you never cry infront of people don't go cry tomorrow what the hell happened

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here you know but you know my friend who just didn't say Idon't know I mean come

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on AR we now some reminded me we're trained not to say Idon't know but we're also trained once you get in the job world to say I don'tknow because to

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make up you don't know just gets everybody in troublebecause you waste time so something like a simple I don't

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know I mean I just find that one so simple if you're notalready there but I think you know figure out where your line is and step overit a couple of

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those leaders in the books gave me a few tips one personsaid that she from wats just sorry watches when other leaders

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share some vulnerability and she doesn't want to copy themexactly but what did say how did they do it how did they

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behave what did others react you know she observes that'sokay where will I draw my line and you draw different

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lines you know someone once said Joe you're white male over60 and you're run BCG North America very much risk for you

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buddy sure I get that I'm not n even if you were a 32y oldblack female just

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getting going or or let's say a trans female I mean it's adifferent challenge

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so I got all that the other that that's one thing is wherewatch others the other thing somebody said to me I thought was very powerful Isaid Joe

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than of a time in your past where something uncomfortableand sort of

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vulnerable happened to you did you survive and something inyour life did you survive you oh look at that you made

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it through I mean if you mind if you know do me I'll tell afunny personal story I have two very serious ones or a

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funny one I like 25 I said I'll go back take ceson again andyou ding ding ding

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ding I'm a 25 and I've got my little teacher like I had whenI was eight years old and we decide to do a recital

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when I we decid she said we're doing a recital and you'regoing to be be there with all the eight-year-olds you know me and and I get upthere and a little boy

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in the front row says Mommy Mommy he's really nervous I wasner and how

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embarrassing except it wasn't but you know I've neverforgotten that okay I put myself I mean I wasn't gonna die but

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I put myself in a rather exposed situation that could beembarrassing as hell okay you know here we go twinkle

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twinkle or whatever the song was I've never forgotten thatso okay no that wasn't the end of the world but I was

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pretty mortified at that moment you know and I made itthrough they're not shy at all um but share with us one of your uh

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business stories professional stories because you said youhad two of them I think the most business obvious business

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ones for me were during covid you know it was tough timesright and everybody's uncertain but Co and then I'll be honest

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with you is black livs when George Floyd was killed wasmurdered I mean I actually

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met this is I was even I just want embarrass but I met withour we have networks and our black Network and

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there's a lot of people about a thousand people on Zoomcouldn't see her faces there so many little TV and I couldn't

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even talk and I literally broke down really moved me sadlyyou know

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badly and I didn't know because I didn't know what white guywhat am I say to all these people are feeling it 10 times

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more than me and then I was embarrassed of why am I cryingwhen they're the ones with all the pain um but it was natural

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and I I do cry I don't have a problem to it so but it wasnatural it was I felt massively exposed um but it you know it was I got

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a lot of nice feedback actually two more stories real fastone time I was speaking to um the ELC it's black

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leaders and I had all these papers and I dropped them I wasup on stage I dropped them everywhere there went my talk oh my

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God you know I'm fum first I'm fumbling to pick them up thenI realize this is stupid and I just got up and talked but

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it tell at the end of the day at night there was a you knowhow' it go intervent well the event went I went

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fine I got how did your how did your talk go you dropped allyour started to talk from the heart you know and it was

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good and my experience instead of whatever notes butafterwards people came up said wow Joe that was so cool

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and you know here's this white guy so in their mind to seethe vulnerability was inspiring I mean I remember like three

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different young people you know 30ish came up and told methat my wife said wow that's pretty amazing so you know it

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was terribly embarrassing but it wasn't you know it was nowif I folded and sat down that' be bad thing but I didn't so

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that's that's another example that was pretty interestingand a lot of times people just take themselves too seriously and they want andand they

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want things to be perfect right and they expect things to beperfect and if things don't they might just walk off

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the stage or even worse tell somebody else to come pick itup you know and and hand it to them you know hand them their

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notes or whatever and instead you just kind of laughed itoff and you you did your best and and things you know and it

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kind of leads to my next question is and we talked aboutthis a little bit but what does it mean to lead with Humanity

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the most important thing is to recognize those people thatare working with you

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and teaming with you and probably work for you they are allpeople they are

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humans they have a family at home or something or friends orkids or a dog you know and that that is you cannot

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separate that out from them as an employee or someoneteaming with you you

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separate bunch of it sure I don't need to think everythingsomeone did last night but there you know if something

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wonderful happened in their life they got engaged they'regoing to bring they're going to bring to work that enthusiasm if they losttheir mother

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they're going to bring to work that pain now you can saytake time that's okay so know the old but otherwise you I think

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really to be human is to recognize the others as humanunderstand as best you

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can where they're coming from what their lived experience isyou can't know exactly I mean and once you recognize

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them as humans then treat them with respect which you knowone of the you mentioned vulnerability another one of

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the traits I think are critical is really to ask and listenyou know and and understand that you do not know

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everything and you Damen know something that I don't knowthat if I know it we're both better off and that takes a

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lot of humbleness takes willingness to engage in where yourbrain is but when you do that it also going too long here

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but it also shows the other person you actually respect themyou know your opinion matters that's inspiring to

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people well I Joe I like your story if you don't mindsharing it about um the woman that work for you who told you to

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shut up and listen yeah CU I can go on like anybody else Itry very hard to understand where people coming from but

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you think you got it or the thing I often do is you start toask question and I believe I know where you're going and I

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used to do that it was the general counsel and she's stillhere at BCG and I'd realize I didn't one I didn't

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realize it finally one time she goes Joe would you justprobably swore and said shut the blank up and let me finish my

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qu and she never just like that it's like I was slapped Iwas mortified because it was clear was your first re

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was your first reaction when she told you that he's rightyou know how disrespectful am I being and also then I

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thought and I had a boss who always managed me Joe let themfinish the sentence because you don't know if they're going to make a twist orturn

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you didn't expect now you start to answer the wrong questionand that's really bad because then you you know you

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turn me off especially in Consulting if I'm trying to servea CEO or client and they start going this path I answer like

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that and that's not what they want to know they just say heyI'm not talking to this person anymore because they don't so at first I justmortified

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embarrassed and realize it's really stupid and what I alwayslike to share

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with salespeople that I lead is ask great questions andreally sit there and

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listen because even though you want to jump in and solvesomething if you just give it a couple seconds they might

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share with you more gold that that you wouldn't even saidbefore so that leads me into my next question at

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BCG what did some of the best Consultants do to get Insidethe Minds

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of their uh CEOs that they were working with to really helpserve customers the

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best I call them CEO Whisperers but you know first off theyreally do I mean but

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they really are trying to understand where you're comingfrom and I'm assume you're the CEO you know where you're

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coming from what's on your mind not what's the great work myteam did and I need to present to you not what is the

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answer I figured out from whatever and I need to tell youbut what do you what is on your mind and one guy told me a story

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actually pretty good he said you know he's presenting to aCEO and he had 150 pages and 10 pages Bubba buns going on

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there see cut off so wait a minute wait where's the meat youknow had 150 Pages what the so I said go away go work on it

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again so it came back like eight points one backup page eachthe guy goes where's the meat again you like and he

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real he said no no he said he said Steve I need to knowsomething I don't know I don't need you to tell me what I know

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and that's the where you get the watch read your watch andplay you know tell you the time so the next time he said

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listen buddy that's listen sir there are 10 points here thatyou need to know seven of them you know and you're right

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one of them you think you know we think you're wrong and twowe just think you don't know as well let's talk about those three and the CEOsaid finally the

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meat because you know they took the time to understand thisguy's already got these seven understood it we don't need

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to waste his or her time figuring them out it's these threethat either we have data he's not he or she's not aware of

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Android or they just don't know the answer but that reallytakes time to figure out what's in your head and I

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think the worst care if I say this the Consultants are justlike to play out the analysis they did and therefore

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here's the answer maybe they get lucky and everything'sperfectly right sometimes

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but really you know really so that's I think the biggestthing is what is in your head and what do you what do you

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already know what do you not know where can I help fill thegaps and where do they matter to you and that takes a lot

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of listening to your opening comment I'll tell you anotherstory it wasn't I don't think it's just consultant and

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client one time I was in a steering committee meeting thehead of logistics was presenting to the team and to the

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CEO and he was going like this and the CEO asked a questionthat went the other way and literally this guy was like he's

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a vice president so he wasn't senior he looked over kind ofeven see him like well that's not my presentation he

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ignored the question and kept on going the C you could seethat I knew the CE very well his eyes gled over he didn't

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listen to the rest of the presentation he was done he wasdone and you can bet that guy's career was at one level done

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you know might stay where he was but it was reallyinteresting because he didn't even he didn't even say well I'm talking

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about this what are you asking me he could even said thatlike I'm I'm missing the point of your question to be

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got say he didn't even do that didn't even give him therespect to say oh why are you asking that you know it was

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interesting so it's not just consult them it's in your anywork world the minute the boss thinks you're just ignoring them because youknow the

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answer good luck to you so in that situation let's say thisguy has no clue or this woman has no clue what the

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answer is how could they have handled that situationdifferently if I had been him I would oh this ce's name was Steve

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man all my all the people that work with the Nam Steve buthe could said Steve you know thank you for that now let me

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make sure I'm clear what you're asking play it back I'vebeen talking about this how does that even one of how do

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how does your question fit in this what is it that I'm notsaying that you're looking for and just listen have him say it again whateveroh no no you boom boom

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boom boom boom and then then I think it depends well goshSteve I didn't prepare for that answer do you mind if I bring

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that to next year in commit he's going to say fine you g sayyou know or gosh Steve I don't know that my team I have

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to think about it he he wants the answer he doesn't want tocatch you now you're a bad leader they want to catch you well

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that's not what I'd argu he just wants the answer or shewants the answer that's what I would have done played it

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back try to understand wise ask and then answer it if youknow it or say gosh I

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don't know I'll come back to you I don't know let let megather some information and get back to you and like you said at

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the end of the day if the CEO is a great leader he's nottrying to just you know embarrass you or or catch you he really

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wants the answer to that and I'm sure if you come back tonext steering meeting or whatever as long as you don't

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overpromise to underproduce and not show but the results orat least something else it's okay to say I don't know oh

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yeah no no you're right you may not wait you may say listengive me three days let's set up an hour privately or with

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my team there's no one not going to like that answer no onebecause they're going to appreciate it you and I were talking

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beforehand and you're doing a lot of uh speaking andengagements these days and one of the thing that comes up the most

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uh both in your book and these speaking engagements is beingan authentic leader

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and why that is so important share with us a little bitabout that nobody will

25:51

follow to the ends of the world someone who Pro you proceedto never make mistakes to be perfect to always have

25:57

all the it's just too uncomfortable you know being a bitreal such that they can relate to you who all the days you're

26:04

going to get people to follow you as like the I don't knowstory you know where oh if he's stuck we're stuck

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everybody opens up I just think that's so so essential youthink about your

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question you just ask the other thing I I get several getmore often than not is you know if you really want to be this

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kind of leader it can be exhausting because you're listeningpeople might start to bring in the personal life you

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anding is so much that it just starts to weigh on you whichis one a good friend

26:33

of mine at xbcg read the book show yeah Joe this is greatbut you're missing one point which you have to take care of

26:38

yourself too which I'm not an expert on that I guess Imanaged to take care because it never bother me but it's

26:44

actually quite an interesting point because someone asked metoday I me meeting with people today and he said you know I just ask howthey're doing

26:50

and feeling and they just go on and on and I got to get backto work what do I do so there's you know there's also a

26:57

challenge you need to make sure you're taking care ofyourself and you know you're in positions

27:02

to be able to give yourself to to others when when they needit um I don't my

27:08

only answer to all that is I think in any task we have inwork when work's intense usually is everybody has to have

27:15

you know whatever their destressors whatever word it is butthe thing that allows you to just step back and not get

27:21

too caught up in the moment when the stress is really highfor me as a jogger a runner just run you know if you're a

27:28

meditator heav help I mean not but good for you becauseyou're really hopit me um anyway yeah so I think that

27:34

vulnerability is critical to enabling others to show whenthey're stuck and I

27:39

think the other thing is take care of yourself I get thatquestion more than more than I have thought about it to be

27:45

honest to be a generous leader what is something you can doto help I don't

27:50

know develop your own skills to better serve other peopletwo things I do think the most simple thing is just get in the

27:56

habit of asking questions and then listening um I think thatis

28:01

the easiest way to start develop the skill because one it'sjust even if you don't really listen the first few times

28:08

it shows respects that you ask now you got to start tolisten and take in the answer or they'll bet you get get onto

28:14

you but it's not hard you know it's not hard to say well I'mnot clear where you're coming from or wow you seem

28:20

skeptical what do you know that I don't know or when youwere you had some different set of data you know what did

28:26

it say to you these are hard question now you got to listenfor the answer and if they tell you something you don't

28:31

know you can't assume they're wrong I think that's theeasiest First Step um I

28:38

don't know if easy because if you believe you're alwaysright it's difficult for you but it's a step that's going to make the biggestdifference

28:44

another simple thing actually I'm big believer is small actsbig impact and

28:49

you know there's books written about that too but you knowremember when you're kindergarten you get the gold star on your paper it'sreally good now

28:55

you never got you never didn't get a gold star because aboutmotivating a six-year-old even if work was no good

29:01

but we all remember those yeah you smile the way you justsmile you know the warmth so when you you know opportunities to recognizesomebody on

29:08

their birthday congratulate somebody on a job well done sendan email congratulate them you know pat on the

29:13

back all these things you know someone told me a story shesaid if she tells

29:18

her boss on you know Thursday hey big weekend my son's got asoccer tournament you know whatever basic thing if he he

29:25

or she comes back on Tuesday and says hey by the way howthat soccer team go soccer game for your sons she's like

29:31

whoa you remembered you took it all took us six seconds youtook the six seconds to hats and you listen for me for 30 you

29:37

know she said I'll follow that person almost anywhere youknow because they took the time to remember something about me that mattered tome a lot in

29:44

the next three days and ask me about it very small act verysmall huge impa

29:50

listening or even pretending like you're listening is is asmall Act of of respect that really goes a long way with

29:58

people um it makes a huge difference and so share a littlebit about just the research behind of How It's helped

30:05

improve productivity the uh these small actions that havesuch a big impact digging into research on these various

30:12

points or thinking I did this I I did read something likeliterally in the 1940s or

30:17

1950s where some studies were done by you know where ifsomeone just stepped a little over the line and said hey job

30:24

well done thank you or just showed a little bit of honestyabout the other person the impact was massive um but

30:32

essentially back then you wouldn't do it because it wasn'tit wasn't accepted to be a little bit more personal than

30:39

normal you know and so it's very funny because of not ofcourse but it actually

30:45

quite motivates people but there was a fear of even showinganything beyond how did you work

30:52

go what are your results what did you get done you knowasking someone about the soccer game that weekend you

30:58

wouldn't have been something you might have done in theyou're a cog in the wheel you have a job I just see you as a

31:03

worker um so I so I you know that I don't know specificresearch I don't know but that was pretty interesting

31:09

because many years ago they showed when people did that yousaw the productivity gains you know that the satisfaction

31:15

with work gains those things what I've heard you say is ifyou see people for being themselves and more than just a

31:22

role uh it makes a huge difference and maybe you could sharethat story about the uh the the black women during the

31:28

George Floyd in and United so Scott Kirby the CEO of Unitedwho was telling

31:33

me the story his wife was on a plane just after covid andafter know George

31:39

Floyd murder and the captain came out and said oh Mrs KirbyI'm so excited

31:45

you're on my plane and you know I love your husband in thecontext of working but I love your husband and i' do practically anything forUnited she goes

31:52

oh why he said well when the George Floyd murder happenedScott called every

31:58

captain of color and this was a female black Captain andjust asked just checked in on how we're doing didn't say

32:05

the company's got this or that for you or you know what doyou you know what do you need but just how you doing it was a

32:11

simple call and it was so powerful and he did it with all ofthem so of course word got around now that's not a little

32:18

tenc because it took him some time but he didn't have topray all he had to do is have someone give him a phone numbers he didn't haveto prepare anything and

32:24

she was so moved by that call from the CEO at a moment inher life it was

32:29

massively important which I think is the other thing tothink about in small acts you know if you're doing them in a

32:35

moment that really matters to that person and it it justmeans so much and

32:42

you know what you may think is not such a big deal in thatmoment could be a huge deal to them um I had a friend

32:48

another actually was a podcast host was who were talkingpror prior to the call and I'd mentioned this stuff and she

32:54

said oh myam my daughter last night got an email from herboss the congratul we were all talking about a dinner table

33:00

and everyone's so proud of her actually he even copied hisboss and so you know that she would on it on with just this

33:06

enthusiasm one little email and the woman's or young girlstelling her mom they're have joying a dinner over

33:12

celebrating her an email you know not a raise not a bonus anemail the impact

33:17

that people could have um just by just sharing somethingthat they recognize uh

33:23

an achievement or or just thanking them for something thatthey did it's so powerful and it's so easy it's just you

33:29

have to spend the time to remember you know and then youhave to spend the time to you know identify it in the moment

33:35

and then make the statement um and not not think it's toopersonal you know

33:40

been commenting on her son soccer you that's kind of sillynowadays that's not even personal but there might have been a time where youwouldn't even do that

33:47

so question there because what you said is you have toremember it so if I'm somebody leading a thousand

33:55

person organization like might say like I don't have a timeto remember a thousand birthdays or whatnot are there

34:01

any systems or recommendations that you would recommend forpeople to put something in place so they can get

34:07

better at making these small uh accents I mean first off ofcourse around the team you're with you know look for the

34:14

opportun don't pass the buck on everything so I'm GNA sayhowever it is quite fair to put in systems and to have

34:19

help when I say happy birthday but not now but actually I'mstill doing it I said it to everybody that worked for me

34:25

everyone that partner so I think I was a 2,000 birthdays ayear and 2000 yeah

34:30

2000 but I do it by email but I it's very first off I putall their well my

34:35

assistant make sure all their birthdays are on my calendarso we see it there it is in the morning up on the top you know

34:42

and then we also she will take it's very simple I just sayin a subject line

34:48

Happy Birthday Julie hope you have a great day and then if Iknow really well I might personalize the note but she

34:54

will just put all those in drafts I wake up every morningshe could actually send them but I like to send them I'm my personal I wake upevery morning and

35:01

there's three in there for today ding ding ding takes notime now I suppose people probably knew Mary Kate was her

35:08

name helped me but no one begrudged it you know as the yearswere by like sometimes I miss some hey you didn't say

35:13

happy birthday it was little te I just I just like yourhappy birthday Jo but so that you know and I also think um it's a

35:20

funny one I remember a number of years ago my chief of staffin washing office

35:26

you know sometimes I have hard time remember made Iliterally have a walk along with me and whisper something in advance hey youknow okay we're coming

35:33

on Julie Julie went to that's really cheating but no it'snot sorry you can't remember everything so sorry and you

35:39

just use mechanisms it's not cheating go ahead you saysomething no what what I was just I was just going to say that I

35:45

don't think that that's cheating I I think that you got touse the resources and tools available because you're human

35:52

and humans are allowed to make mistakes and not only thathow are you going to keep track of 2,000 people so yeah right

35:58

no and even the fact of asking your assistant or your Chiefof Staff that's one of their roles is an act you know

36:04

instead of your rol is boom boom boom Your Role is to ensureI connect help me connect with people um you're right I

36:11

don't know I say cheating but it's not cheating because youcan't do it completely by yourself we're talking a

36:17

lot about you know how important it is to care and to behuman and everything so when you're out giving uh a keynote

36:22

giving a a talk what are some of the things that people comeup to you and say afterward about whether it's the

36:29

behavior change they're going to try to implement or someaha moments or what are some of the things that make you go

36:34

home feeling really good about yourself after uh deliveringthat speech if I'm given a full keynote as you said I

36:40

actually have on part where I I hand out a little card notthat big it's got the

36:46

seven traits on one side and has blank on the other I youknow I have somebody pass them down the rows and I I said

36:52

okay let's take you know 90 seconds now I want you to rightnow write a note to somebody of thank you or congratulations

36:59

or appreciation um the first time I did it l then they haveme sign books so that

37:05

part's silly but literally someone came up and said lookwhat I got and she showed me the card that someone had done and had handed toher in the moment she

37:12

so and then another company the CEO said Joe you had us dothat and one woman or

37:18

person I know know male female wrote an email to everybodyon our team with a thank you following that and he sent it

37:24

to me he said look out look at what you did here those verysimple I mean you see me smiling it

37:30

was really moving you know was really moving it's so simpleum and the person that got it in that moment she was so

37:37

excited that's probably making their culture better you knowit's making them a stronger team and people are

37:42

remembering how to collaborate and and really have eachother's backs so I think that that's fantastic yeah you

37:48

know I do believe well I hope that if more of us we actedalong these ways you

37:54

know it'll Ripple through your team hopefully to your pointbecause ripples through your organization and maybe even

37:59

ripples through society which would be quite nice for all ofus you know a little more asking each other why you

38:04

had that point of view and listening to the answer whetheryou agree or disagree would be good for for all of us what

38:10

have we not spoken about that you want to leave our audiencewith whether it's from your book or from your vast

38:15

experience at BCG they could help somebody become a moregenerous leader

38:21

well I I think I don't I mean we've spoken about a lot ofstuff I think you said it a minute ago we didn't use the word much but you alot of this is about

38:29

as you said ask me seeing them as humans but it's also aboutcarrying and you know the if the car the only care you

38:35

can find is you want them to be as effective as they can beokay because to do that you have to do a lot of these things I'm saying but themore you can

38:42

bring care for your teams and and you know leverage one ofthe seven traits or

38:47

multiple of them to demonstrate that demonstrate that Ithink actually well the better they'll be for them they'll

38:52

perform better your team will do better and actually youmight even enjoy life a little better and so we've had a I mean

38:57

amazing conversation today you know we talked about howvulnerability bu builds trust authenticity matters you know

39:04

people aren't perfect um really small gestures and the largeimpacts that they

39:09

have you know growing others to help grow yourself andreally humanizing

39:15

leadership being human being humble and growing others andgrowing yourself so

39:21

Joe this has been amazing I really appreciate your timewhere can our

39:26

audience connect with you out I have now become a LinkedInuser big time so you truly can leave me a message there I

39:32

have a I have a Joe davis.com website there's a way to leavea message there but I LinkedIn now I I follow it and you

39:39

know pay attention to messages so I'm more than happy ifsomeone wants to engage to engage and what about your

39:46

book if you'd like to read my book go read it you can get iton Amazon or whatever you know what I would say if

39:51

you buy it I'd actually rather you read it otherwise don'tyou know it's really about changing our leadership behaviors

39:57

it's what I care about I mean and you know it's an easy readactually everyone tells me it's an easy read it is an easy

40:03

read it's it's it's under 200 Pages the chapters are verysuccinct laid out with calls to action and it's it's more like

40:11

a Playbook you know it's easy uh I I like that you know it'sless theoretical and more examples of of what people can

40:17

get away and and and take out of it um yeah and also youknow if you're out there looking for a great keynote

40:23

speaker I I couldn't recommend Joe Moore so um thank you forthat there you go

40:30

so I love it thank you yeah well so listeners out there dome a favor um

40:37

share this episode with somebody share it with somebodywho's leading and maybe they can benefit from being a little bit

40:43

more vulnerable instead of like Joe likes to call which wedidn't talk about today but noology you know people who

40:49

have it all people who have it all figured out the know itall's out there so share this episode with somebody and until next timeeverybody please do me a

40:56

favor stay C keep learning and have a great day see you nexttime leaders have

41:01

an opportunity to think about ways to create Community withindividuals from different backgrounds different

41:07

perspectives different ideologies with the hopes of

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